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13 July 2007 @ 11:45 pm
Ooooooookay...  
This is the part where V blows up the Houses of Parliament, right?
 
 
Current Music: Beethoven's Fifth
 
 
 
The Voice Of Reason: Ichigo & Rukia 'I SAVD U'ellonwye on July 14th, 2007 01:30 pm (UTC)
Honestly, I think it's a pretty good idea.

We're already pretty much under constantly CCTV surveillance in the street and nobody here is particularly bothered about it, if you have nothing to hide then you don't really pay attention to them. They've done wonders to catch thieves and vandals.. in fact, CCTV footage helped in the arrest of the London and Glawsgow bombers, so I'm honestly glad of it.
thudpucker: prisoner - by thudpuckerthudpucker on July 14th, 2007 07:29 pm (UTC)


"...if you have nothing to hide then you don't really pay attention to them."

"If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear." - motto of the Czechoslovakian Secret Police. At one point, they had a third of the citizens of their country officially under surveillance.

Constant monitoring by the government shouldn't make you glad. Constant monitoring by the government should scare the hell out of you.


postrophe on July 14th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC)
What about constant monitoring by citizens?
I recall some private vids of police abuse showing up in court and keeping justice from turning into just the sort of thing we're worried about here. And the cop-car cams that police officers complain about as surveilling them is essentially the same thing...

It seems to me the real issue is who gets to see the data. If the video is of the public, for the public interest, the data should be free access.
thudpucker: prisoner - by thudpuckerthudpucker on July 14th, 2007 08:01 pm (UTC)


I don't particularly like the idea of being constantly monitored by a civilian entity, either. But if I don't like it, I can choose to not do business with the corporation who wants to monitor my every move on their premises. I don't have the option, though, of not taking city streets.

I get your point about why the cops want to have recorders going all the time, and I can sympathize with them. But that wasn't my point. She was speaking of how she felt that no one was bothered by constant police surveillance and how people who have done no wrong have... well, you've heard it. The phrase just scares the hell out of me.


postrophe on July 14th, 2007 10:27 pm (UTC)
Actually the last I heard the cops were Complaining about the idea of being always on camera, for the same reasons... but yeah, that phrase remind me of things like 'reeducation mandated' ... or 'work makes you free'...

What really scares me is the idea of government and business putting their video and profile databases together - for Either one's benefit...
thudpucker: prisoner - by thudpuckerthudpucker on July 14th, 2007 10:33 pm (UTC)


"What really scares me is the idea of government and business putting their video and profile databases together..."

Oh, thank you. As if I weren't already paranoid about the whole concept...


Fritters: V - Not about Bush by enlisted_smilefritters on July 14th, 2007 08:11 pm (UTC)
I agree about the free access. And I think people should be allowed to monitor their own areas. What actually bothers me the most is what they've already done, with the cameras on every corner. The main reason I posted it, though, is it just seems so very much like the movie. Next thing you know they start rounding up undesirables...
The Voice Of Reasonellonwye on July 14th, 2007 09:08 pm (UTC)
Constant monitoring by the government should scare the hell out of you.

Why?
thudpucker: prisoner - by thudpuckerthudpucker on July 14th, 2007 09:59 pm (UTC)


A) Privacy. As a citizen, here in the US, we have a certain expectation of being left alone by the Federal Government; that they will not watch us as if we were criminals and reply to complaints by saying... well, what you said. The Stazi line.

Of course, since you are not a citizen but a subject, you may not have those expectations. But we do.

B) Treating everyone in a country as if they were in the process of wrong doing creates a "them and us" attitude among those whose job it is to enforce the law. If the government feels it has to watch your moves constantly, they're subconsciously saying that you cannot be trusted. You're a perp. You're not "us". You're "them".

Of course, here we are legally innocent until proven guilty, while in courts your criminals are guilty until proven innocent. I guess that makes a good precedent.

C) Surveillance and monitoring technology used today to catch terrorists can and probably will be used tomorrow to catch common thieves, yes... and then the day to catch those who are critical of a government that believes such measures are necessary.

D) Because it is wrong. I can't think of a better argument that that... it's wrong for the government to spy on the citizens it is supposed to protect. You're not being protected. You're begin dominated - and it saddens me that most of your fellow subjects can't understand.

I miss Churchill.